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NISMOgemini
Post #931

hardly strong enough without a cage... previously in this thread someone mentioned they weren't going all that fast.. and it was in teh sand trap.. so alot of speed would have been scrubbed off before it happened. flipping it with a bit of speed on the track the roof will crumble like a coke can

vlt88t
Post #932

Agreed, the price of a roll cage is a small amount to pay for your safety, to go off at high speed through the kink on the main straight at Lakeside and loose it and flip would not be getting out of it so easy !!

PRO050
Post #933

QUOTE (NISMOgemini @ Apr 14 2010, 10:12 AM) *
hardly strong enough without a cage... previously in this thread someone mentioned they weren't going all that fast.. and it was in teh sand trap.. so alot of speed would have been scrubbed off before it happened. flipping it with a bit of speed on the track the roof will crumble like a coke can

^^^^ x2 It was a very slow roll over.

slow bus
Post #934

The Holden driver training centre would be a great track, I am booked to have a fang around there in a couple of weeks.

Has anyone mounted a tow hook to the front, I have been scratching my head on what to do.

Do you have a list of place to get the tyres fitted and when is the deal available in need to get the excel shod

PRO050
Post #935

Jeff may be you can chime in here, why would they get questioned for having a 1/2 cage when in there own regs clearly states min 1/2 cage?

benno.h
Post #936

+ 1 for Norwell (or Norwich or whatever it is). Awesome track to drive and a convenient location.

benno.h
Post #937

QUOTE (PRO050 @ Apr 14 2010, 10:27 AM) *
Jeff may be you can chime in here, why would they get questioned for having a 1/2 cage when in there own regs clearly states min 1/2 cage?


I think the scrutineer was just being a dick. There was a fair few other cars out there with 1/2 cages, we ended up talking to the chief course marshall and he said it was fine. Jeff spoke to him as well, it should be a non-issue - a 1/2 cage is FINE for what we're doing.

Evaded Motorsport
Post #938

QUOTE (wasas @ Apr 14 2010, 09:54 AM) *
Tow hooks needed to be proper ones, not just the tie down points we were going to use. - they let it slide, but said we have the possibly of ripping it straight off. I dont see how as the car is ~850kg, unless they go full throttle trying to pull us out of the sand.
Roll cage - wanted 6pt. as they said will allow 4pt for top gun circuit.
we were a little worried about a secondary bonnet tie down, but we didn't mention it. have purchased flush mounts for secondary pins now but still need to get them installed. the stock bonnet has a 2 mech lock so I think they will let it pass.
we made sure we had a second throttle spring, and all our gear was new and sorted.
apart from the looks and comments about it being pretty stock we had a ball :)

But tow hooks and cage were the main sticking points.
And after that roll over on sunday with no cage it should prove they are strong enough if SOMEHOW you manage to flip it.


It isn't about flipping it it is about side intrusion.

mr_squiggle_1
Post #939

The main issue with tow hooks is generally the standard ones are tucked away under or behind a bumper. When you get stuck in a gravel trap and dig yourself in deep putting a tow rope on this can be hard, and when you do get it on there when pulling you out it can damage your front bar/rear bar which ever it may be.

When you fit a proper tow point that protrudes from the body work and is coloured bright red, it is not only easy to see when rushing to get events back under way, it is also easy to access. It will also prevent any damage.

For the sake of maybe $20 in materials is it really worth not having one?



- In regards to the roll over, as stated it was at a reduced speed.

I would not like to be in one of these things and having an issue at speed (like through the kink for example). They are designed to a certain level to pass road laws but I would not consider relying on it at speeds above road paces.

- 1/2 Cages are fine. I am unsure why the scrutineer would have had an issue, I will have a chat to those guys and see what the issue was.

benno.h
Post #940

QUOTE (mr_squiggle_1 @ Apr 14 2010, 10:36 AM) *
The main issue with tow hooks is generally the standard ones are tucked away under or behind a bumper. When you get stuck in a gravel trap and dig yourself in deep putting a tow rope on this can be hard, and when you do get it on there when pulling you out it can damage your front bar/rear bar which ever it may be.

When you fit a proper tow point that protrudes from the body work and is coloured bright red, it is not only easy to see when rushing to get events back under way, it is also easy to access. It will also prevent any damage.

For the sake of maybe $20 in materials is it really worth not having one?



- In regards to the roll over, as stated it was at a reduced speed.

I would not like to be in one of these things and having an issue at speed (like through the kink for example). They are designed to a certain level to pass road laws but I would not consider relying on it at speeds above road paces.

- 1/2 Cages are fine. I am unsure why the scrutineer would have had an issue, I will have a chat to those guys and see what the issue was.


It was the same guy who had an issue with our tow hooks. At no time did he mention visibility of it may be a problem - it was clearly indicated by the sticker. What he said was that it may rip off if it was used - which is absurd. While there is one that is a bit dodgy the ones that are mounted to the actual chassis are far stronger than any red painted $20 eyelet.

Marlin
Post #941

Anyone running any car out there doesn't HAVE to have aftermarket tow hooks. It is merely a suggestion.

Maybe the propensity of Excels to find themselves in more strife prompted a suggestion from the officials to fit a tow hook. I was there, they didn't demand it, they just warned they take no responsibility.

PRO050
Post #942

QUOTE (mr_squiggle_1 @ Apr 14 2010, 10:36 AM) *
The main issue with tow hooks is generally the standard ones are tucked away under or behind a bumper. When you get stuck in a gravel trap and dig yourself in deep putting a tow rope on this can be hard, and when you do get it on there when pulling you out it can damage your front bar/rear bar which ever it may be.

When you fit a proper tow point that protrudes from the body work and is coloured bright red, it is not only easy to see when rushing to get events back under way, it is also easy to access. It will also prevent any damage.

For the sake of maybe $20 in materials is it really worth not having one?



- In regards to the roll over, as stated it was at a reduced speed.

I would not like to be in one of these things and having an issue at speed (like through the kink for example). They are designed to a certain level to pass road laws but I would not consider relying on it at speeds above road paces.

- 1/2 Cages are fine. I am unsure why the scrutineer would have had an issue, I will have a chat to those guys and see what the issue was.

THANKS for clearing the cage deal up, and for under $600 for a 1/2 cage buys you cheep insurance.

benno.h
Post #943

QUOTE (Marlin @ Apr 14 2010, 10:53 AM) *
Anyone running any car out there doesn't HAVE to have aftermarket tow hooks. It is merely a suggestion.

Maybe the propensity of Excels to find themselves in more strife prompted a suggestion from the officials to fit a tow hook. I was there, they didn't demand it, they just warned they take no responsibility.


They said they'd accept no responsibility for ripping our tow hook off. Which is fair enough, but the premise the entire conversation was based on is absurd.

I'm not against safety equipment by any stretch of the imagination, I just think inconsistent and illogical application of their own rules is doing NO ONE any favours.

Marlin
Post #944

:) You haven't even bugun experience illogical and inconsistent yet, wait until you deal with CAMS or attend a CAMS sanctioned event, with CAMS scrutineers :)

Stay calm man.

NISMOgemini
Post #945

if i was the guy towing people out i would crack the shits at having to dig under teh car to find the stock points.. makes sense for them to request a visible easy access item, even if its not required by any rules

PRO050
Post #946

QUOTE (Marlin @ Apr 14 2010, 11:08 AM) *
:) You haven't even bugun experience illogical and inconsistent yet, wait until you deal with CAMS or attend a CAMS sanctioned event, with CAMS scrutineers :(

Stay calm man.

:)

trackattack
Post #947

LOL you guys sure get excited :)

As Ben said, we have it easy as we are dealing with QR & AASA who understand that its entry level motorsport.
If you intend to go CAMS racing the requirements are the same at all levels and can be much more demanding.

I asked about the scrutineering requirements as anybody who is intending to do the Circuit Racing in May will have the same issues to resolve as the Pork Hunt guys did.

The minimum requirement for Topgear racing is the 4-point cage, thats what the insurers and QR have decided.
I wouldn't go circuit racing without a 6-point cage with intrusion bars and highly recommend the same.

I also strongly recommend roll cages for the sprints,
you have all seen how easy it is to roll a car and a roll over at high speed would be much more devastating.

trackattack
Post #948

QUOTE (slow bus @ Apr 14 2010, 10:24 AM) *
Do you have a list of place to get the tyres fitted and when is the deal available in need to get the excel shod


You can buy the tyres immediately.
Please note that to get them for that price you need to buy them through Track Attack.
There is no point in phoning the tyre shops trying to get them this cheap because they wont be able to do it.
The pricing is FEDERAL SPONSORSHIP Pricing.
The prices shown include delivery, you can get them fitted by your local tyre guy if you want.

price link - http://www.trackattack.com.au/2010/index.p...amp;sort=normal


The following shops have agreed to fit and balance the tyres for $15.00 each

Qld Raceway will F&B for $15 each or 4 for $40
Tyre fitting is currently not available at Lakeside.


South side

Brisbane Tyre & Mechanical Ask for Jim - $15 to $20
Unit 2, 779 Logan Rd, HOLLAND PARK, QLD, 4121
phone 3397 1377

JAX BROWNS PLAINS
25 - 27 GRAND PLAZA DRV
BROWNS PLAINS 07 38005923

WHEEL BOYZ
UNIT 1/2 ELDERSLIE RD
YATALA 38076677

GOLD COAST
AUSTYRE "N" WHEELS
UNIT 1/2 ELDERSLIE RD
YATALA 38076677

NTH SIDE

TYRETECH
12 Windorah St Stafford
ph: 32528022

Evaded Motorsport
Post #949

QUOTE (Marlin @ Apr 14 2010, 11:08 AM) *
:) You haven't even bugun experience illogical and inconsistent yet, wait until you deal with CAMS or attend a CAMS sanctioned event, with CAMS scrutineers :)

Stay calm man.


This man speaks the truth,

slow bus
Post #950

Back on the tow hooks can we modify the front bar to fit them, I cant see any other way to attach to someting structural.

trackattack
Post #951

http://images.google.com/images?q=tow%20ho...l=en&tab=wi

Marlin
Post #952

I have (well, had, until it got torn up during the fence encounter in Tassie) the best tow hook and custom "tow" sticker on mine :)
trackattack
Post #953

I thought cigarette advertising was banned on race cars ? :)

Marlin
Post #954

QUOTE (trackattack @ Apr 14 2010, 12:52 PM) *
I thought cigarette advertising was banned on race cars ? :(

I was glad the correct (well, close enough :)) Camel cigs font was in the computer :)

slow bus
Post #955

the cams regs state the hook can not protrude past the outer most point of the car, there is very limited metal to fix a town hook to at the front. I might have to weld in a bar to take the hook.

trackattack
Post #956

get a long hook - about 350mm ?? and bolt it in on an angle where the existing tie-down points are ?

I have a couple of sets of stickers if anybody needs them.

nodrog
Post #957

How many tow hooks do we need to have??

1 at the front and one at the back?? and do we only need them for circuit racing???

I have also seen a few race car that had a tow strap fitted, and I think the V8s even have them fitted and contained within the boot space. Is this an option where angle and space are a problem??

Aza
Post #958

ur not refering to tow hooks like these are u? these use the exsisting tow loops. mind u theres are evo ones


 
trackattack
Post #959

QUOTE (nodrog @ Apr 14 2010, 01:52 PM) *
How many tow hooks do we need to have??


depends how many ends of the car you plan to bury in the sand trap :)
Seriously though, 1 front and 1 rear should be sufficient.


QUOTE (nodrog @ Apr 14 2010, 01:52 PM) *
and do we only need them for circuit racing???


for sprints the only requirement is what you would find on a normal road car.
bearing that in mind, its easy to rip bumpers of on modern cars with a tow rope on a high angle

QUOTE (nodrog @ Apr 14 2010, 01:52 PM) *
I have also seen a few race car that had a tow strap fitted, and I think the V8s even have them fitted and contained within the boot space. Is this an option where angle and space are a problem??


it really is easier to attach them to the lower part of the car, the chassis rails aren't that hard to get to if the hook is long enough.

Aza
Post #960

btw if anyone cares us at Dryden Motorsports with the help of Budscustoms and GSL Rallysport will be building an excel for this series. Ha seems like it would be alot of fun to get into :)

Beannie
Post #961

hey jeff, im having a few issues on your site. most links revert back to the main page...

trackattack
Post #962

working on it, I know what the problem is, but its a Cpanel issue and I might have to get the server manager to fix it.

brendo12
Post #963

hey jeff, im keen for that practice day you had asked about...it would be great to get a bit of track practice under my belt and to help set the car up...

trackattack
Post #964

web site should be back to normal.

Greg Fahey from QR is running the training day, I will post up when I have a confirmed date from him.
Its not one of my events, but I thought a few people might benefit from it.

trackattack
Post #965

I have started to organise a few tyres.
Its working out easiest at the moment to get them sent to the purchasers local tyre store.
Makes it convenient and easy.

Cheers Jeff

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