Hyundai Excel Racing Series - Track Attack - Evil things are about to happen to Hyundai Excels  

Marlin

lol, I know it's good cheap fun, but serial......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr61PUqYu1E...feature=related

wasas

talkin shit, nothing to read here

-==L=a=N=c=E==-

love it... 3rd and 4th gear around the whole track!


trying to convince the minister for war and finance that buying an excel is in out best interests. hahaha



out of curiosity, how much weight are people pulling out of these cars?

trackattack

Dont ask him that !, he run's 58's
but your correct, the Excels are flogging a heap of more powerful cars.

wasas

well, we dont have to worry about this:

http://img130.imageshack.us/i/post1833661267950393129.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/i/post1833661267950395154.jpg

and a 58 is a crackin time, I take back my comment

PRO050

Alot of the saloon car guys just use the top half of the dash, and fab door cards.
Jeff fab dash and door cards should be fine and stick with the tyre rule you've got now for sprints and racing.
Cheers Paul.

trackattack

Yeah replacements for dash and door trims are fine, the main issue is safety.
I have just amended the rules to include suitable safe replacements.

I wouldn't be surprised to see QR start to have a look over the cars now that there are so many out there.
So have a look at what you have and make sure that no sharp bits can jab you.
I was talking to someone who recently rolled a car at high speed with only a normal seatbelt and they ended up lying across the passenger seat.

sv8nato

thats crap cause now i have to buy a new dash cause as with most excels mine was so sun damaged that i had a big hole in it and when i started to pull the dash out it fell apart,its startin to get abit more than cheap racing with all these changes so me and three of my mates that are getin cars ready for the next raceday are thinkin of maybe not bothering and scrappin our cars

trackattack

nothing has actually changed for ages.

we have had a discussion about a possible tyre deal, but nothing has changed in the rules. (and wont change unless it means cheap tyres)
We have discussed a safety issue regarding the cockpit immediately surrounding the driver and hi-lighted a potential problem that the drivers need to be aware of.

If your really keen to have no dash and no door cards, get the QR guys to sign off on it and I wont question it.

X3man

That youtube vid was good. You guys sure are doing it on the cheap, if it was a cams event you'd be up for atleast another 2-3k in safety equipment alone. I can't believe you dont require a cage or harness.

SAFETY TESTS - http://www.excelrally.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1875

Min requirements for racing is double layer fire proof suit, fire proof boots, cotton underware and socks, level 3 licence which requires an observed driving test at a sanctioned race track, fixed back seat, min 4 point harness, min 4 point cage, foam filled fuel tank or fuel cell, log booked car...and the list goes on.

trackattack

They are supposed to be sprinting, not racing, which is why they get away with normal road car requirements.
The officials had a couple of words at the last meeting about overtaking (which is not permitted on corners) to avoid what happened in that video.

When they upgrade to circuit racing then need roll cage and race suit etc.
That being said, I personally recommend a roll cage in any car used for competition.

PRO050

Drivers door card is a good idea, put the time in and get rid of all the sharp edges, brackets ect. around the dash area and put so foam on the cross bar, that should keep the powers to be happy for next to no cost.
Just remember these cars are punching way above their weight and a big accident is just a matter of when. No one wants to see the class scrapped and someone hurt for something as minor as making it a little safer inside.
Cheers Paul

nodrog

I have left my door cards in just taken a few handles off as they just get in the way. Seeing that they weight so little and keep all the sharp edges covered I think its a good idea to keep them.

Started building an ally and fibreglass dash to hold the instruments and then will cover the rest with foam padding.

I'm running a full cage and race seat and 5 point harbess so am quite sure i will not be able to get too close to the dash in an accident.

Beannie

we ran full dash and front door cards for march 14th due to safety. you never know what could happen being thrown around in a car.
we did remove everything behind the front seat but

zuboo

edit

Beannie

i just had a read through some of the posts in the past few pages recently, and i really have to say something... (and i mean this with no dis-respect to anyone)

this is supposed to be a stock car class series. I understand basic mods are allowed, but seriously, you have to draw the line somewhere on this.
all this talk about sticky/soft/semi-slick tyres, larger swaybars, removing dashes (and possibly other 'stock-car' safety aspects) needs to be looked at.

i'm not out to write or re-write the rules, and i'm not the one enforcing them, but this is a stock car series is it not?? this should be a series to be competitive against another driver, not their car's ability

i firmly beleive the rules at the start of the series were quite adequate for a stock car series.

all of these cars running extra this and that, should be moved to a modified series and keep the rules of the stock series quite firm.
not everyone has the money to go out and spend on all these little extra bits n pieces because 1 person has them, so the rules are relaxed for the rest of the entrants. move them to modifed, or remove the mods and replace to stock!??

thoughts?

X3man

You could alaways have 2 sub classes in the series. Stock & Mod.

nodrog

I agree completely and would like to raise the suggestion of having the points include a system based on money spent..... ie the more you spend the less points you earn. After all it was this phrase that caught my eye Its going to be cheap and fun.
I for one am trying to do as mush as possible to keep my costs down, and am shitting myself when it comes to the big ticket items like suspension and tyres. The rest I can do myself to keep the costs down. I was given a damaged X2 and while probably not the best car to use it is what I have. I have already replaced the damaged headlights to keep the body stock, however I have tried to find a genuine dashboard, but no luck as they are all sun damaged etc seeing it is a 1993 model. If we dont allow some flexibility then there will be cars that will not be usable and need to be replaced = increased costs.

A further suggestion is to split the rules into performance and safety rules, with the safety rules being firmer and less open to change but still acknowledging that these are old cars and parts will become harder to find as time goes by.

If there are 2 classes how is it decided which class someone is in, stock by definition includes everything the car came out of the factory with, so change of tyre brand is a mod!!!!??? Install roll cage for safety = mod, install seat for safety = mod!!!!!! Where do we draw the line????

X3man

Performance mods.
This is only an example!!!
Stock: Strictly the rules you already run. road tyres 200 treadwear or over. Safety items are exempt.
Mod: open tyres, open mods under stock body work.
So the rules you already have plus a seperate class for people who can't help but spend.

PRO050

The talk about tyres is just that talk, Jeff said only if he could cut a cheap tyre deal and as yet he hasn't, so don't stress.
Just get out and turn some laps and work on your driving you'll pick up more time than any 1mm larger swaybar will give you.
Don't just go and throw a heap of money and parts at it, if your on a budget than drive it and get a feel for it so you know if the changes you do later make an improvement.
Jeff took a completly stock car out with standard old hard tyres, the car was partially stripped inside and ran 72's, if he went out with a wheel alingment and tyres next time he would be on the pace with no other changes. Jeff has done alot of laps around Lakeside and the best improvemets you can make is seat time.
Cheers Paul

slow bus

WOW alot of people blowing up about cost of tyres, the difference between running a KU36 or the like and a non name chinese brand is a round of drinks. and if you think you can get away with running on old tyres more power to you,

At the price for a half cage it should be manadtory, cut out the other mods and make safety first.

Sway bars should be kept stock, if you have a cage installed the benefit of rigidity of the car would give the same net gain as upgrading sway bars.

Really you should be able to setup a reasonable car for under 2.5K
$1000 car purchase
$500 ROPS
$500 springs and shocks
$500 tyres

Dismounts highhorse and gets himself a drink

neil_se

That never works, all of a sudden people start getting cars for nothing and mods for free, ie. never disclose the real costs to minimise penalty.

benno.h

Alright, for those of you whinging about tyres etc, have you actually driven your car on the track with the tyres it came with? They will flat out suck. Nor to mention are probably not speed rated for what we are doing with them and are fuggin dangerous. You WILL NEED NEW TYRES. You can get good ones for ~$100-150 a corner, or shit ones for less than $100 a corner. If you want to be competitive, get the good ones. If you can't afford it, suck it up princess.

Body stiffness (i.e cage) has absolutely *nothing* to do with roll stiffness (sway bars). Not even on the same planet. A decent rear sway bar, for the cost of a single race entry fee, will transform the excel into a rolly, understeering pig into a neutral, flat cornering, predictable handling car.

And if you can get springs and shocks for $500 you're doing pretty bloody well...

You forgot the race seat, harness, helmet, race suits, all those incidental $100 trips to supershit...

This is car racing guys. It's not cheap, and it never will be.

sv8nato

i totally agree this is why i wanted to run in this series cause i was running my v8 vy in the sprints and it was proving to be really expensive so when i seen a (cheap and fun series)i wanted in

trackattack

The only 2 changes to the original rules are wheel diameter size and swaybars.
ignoring the swaybars for the moment....

How many of you want to stick with the 13" wheels ?
have you looked at what tyres are available ?
I doubt you will get anything softer than +350 UTQG

trackattack

Also did I mention that the Stanthorpe Sprints are now only $60.00 from 12:00 to 5:00 - http://www.trackattack.com.au/carnell

nodrog

Maybe rules have not been changed but they have been added to signifficantly changing the original idea.

I have a set printed out on 4 March which did not mention anything about the dash and door cards (not that door cards are an issue!!). This is probably what caused a few to remove their dash, and in some cases probably discard it, but now the "change" requires them to refit. I think the compromise of having a safe alternative is a good one and I guess the ruling on what is safe or not will be up to the powers that be ie QR people.

It might be a good idea for the future to post that a rule change/amendment/clarification has been made on here when it gets changed on trackattack.

Please don't get me wrong I am not trying to break the rules but chasing a moving goal post can be hard. I still think that the driving force must always be safety, and that any mod must keep safety first and foremost, and this includes any performance mods.

I think the rules on tyres is good as it does allow for the safety of the cars to be addressed, yes they are going harder than they should and the only connection between the car and the road is the tyres so good ones are the best option. Maybe just specify road based tyres (already done), set a retail $$ figure (ie the $300 ceiling already set) and a treadware limit (ie 180 as in the KU36) and let the choice be up the the driver.

nodrog

On another note what is the best way to mount a battery in the car?? I need to move mine to make way for the pod and though of putting towards the rear of the cabin, but don't like the idea of having acid somewhere where it could spill on me in the event of an accident.

Would a battery box solve this issue??

NISMOgemini

let us know what you have and i might be interested in buying

trackattack

Clarifications have been made where the intention of the rule was perceived one way by someone with some previous competition experience and a different way by someone who was new to the sport. The intention of the rules hasn't changed.
If anybody isnt sure about anything then just ask, it will save time and money.

Re the Dashes and door cards, its not the dash itself thats important, its the safety aspect.
The rules have been clarified to include "a suitable safe alternative".
That should give some scope.

I have noticed one of the QR officials reading this forum,
so they are now aware of the issue and will no doubt take steps to make sure that they feel the cars are safe.

To fit your battery in the cabin I would use a sealed battery in a battery box.
Make sure that it is securely fixed to the floor.

NISMOgemini

Jebus.. whats with the whining about “rule changing”



As jeff said the only 2 that have changed are the rim size and swaybars..

Its not like any of you had bought 13’s or 13” tires yet.. so big deal. And the 15’s will make it a lot safer.



Sway bars are all of $200 each.. wow that’s hardly breaking the bank.. and if it is, just don’t get them now.. get them later.



You all don’t have to have EVERY mod aloud to get out there and drive.. its for fun, its not like theres a million dollar prize at the end of the year.



As for the dash and door card rule… that’s pretty bloody obvious(in every form or motor sport).. but if you have thrown it then suck it up.. you HAVE to have it simple.. id rater spend less then $100 to put another dash back in to prevent possible major injury.



Also, for anyone saying “this is suppose to be cheap racing” because its getting “too expensive” have obviously never looked into any other racing.. iv been looking for something cheap and fun for over 5 years and this is by fare HALF the cost of what the cheapest I previously found.. FYI, the Gemini series cars are spending on average $1000 EVERY meet.. the excels are spending what? $100 to $200 on entry, some fuel and tire wear

slow bus

Body stiffness (i.e cage) has absolutely *nothing* to do with roll stiffness (sway bars). Not even on the same planet. A decent rear sway bar, for the cost of a single race entry fee, will transform the excel into a rolly, understeering pig into a neutral, flat cornering, predictable handling car.

I never siad the two were related I said the benefit from either would be about the same lap time difference. The cheapest sway bar I have found is $220

And if you can get springs and shocks for $500 you're doing pretty bloody well... I will run the stock 13 year rear shock to start with new springs and front struts

Iam not a big fan of thick sway bars, if you get the spring and shock combo right the sway bar should be a major concern, It is not a magic wond and will not transform your excel into a super saloon. I most instantances a thicker front sway bar will add understeer to the car.

wasas

Far to much to quote, BUT Points I'll make are as follows:

SAFETY:
A cage is (for me) a given. if your running without one your just asking for trouble.
Better rubber is safer. Like the designer of the mini said, "The car is fine. Its your fault if you crash it." Grip is important but you need to balance the car yourself and know its own limits.
We are following CAMS and QLD's laws about the dash/car setup as we are keeping the car road legal. while its not padded I'd rather hit it than the metal underneath thats for sure. Following cams should allow us to run in other events, which we should be competitive in class for.


rules on sways and rubber are fine in my eyes.

@Slow bus
Would love to know where you can find a full set of shocks for for under $600... we are still running old POS ones that are blown as we dont have the money for a decent set yet. springs should be a better investment all round than shocks.
Front sways... well you summed it up. basically you want a soft front that grips and a tight back that slides. hvaing a stiff cage will help with body flex and a sway will help control body roll. they will go hand in hand on a sexcel and as ben says will make it somewhat predictable, even tho its still a bucket.


BACK ON TOPIC!
Whos running circuit this weekend? do we get the 50 points all to ourselfs???

slow bus

Just off the topic a little, what is the minium cage you need to run in the circuit racing. And does this cover Lakeside, QR and other misc venues

On the dash issue If I just sika a dash mat over the craked ad shitty dash will that be acceptable?

Beannie

well, wasn't trying to open a can of worms, but it's good to see some constructive talk about this (rather than typical boostcruising garbo).

I myself am happy with the rules as is, and the tyres and suspension rules that currently stand are quite adequate.
I'm not out there to re-invent the wheel, i'm looking for a fair and even playing field with safe options for all drivers.

i myself was first time out no experience at lakeside in stock road tyres and car (exception of rear seats out) and posted 72seconds in only 2 runs out there (shared entry with brother)
Naturally learning the lines better and car's ability should be up to pace with you guys with practice.

im summary, i dont wish to see rules relaxed for these stock series to much more for the entirety of the series, maybe next year?