Toyota Engines - what about 'em?  

XPN53

2JZ is GOD

Killswitch

Can someone shed some light on the 3S-GE motors for me? I've had a bit of ye-olde google and I've found out that there were 3 series of them? (correct me if I'm wrong...) and that they started out around 120kw(?) in the first series and in the last series found themselves close to 140kw(?)

I also dug up a different variation that appeared in the Altezza RS200's? A 3S-GE 'BEAMS' that comes backed with a 6 speed box and cranking 154kw?

How well do they respond to modifications, whats needed to get 200rwhp?

Cheers!

The Pupat

Naturally Aspirated?


A lot.

Don't expect big gain over the 154kw to come cheap.

lo_rolla

About the 3S GE cracking under boost pressure.

First off, I was trying to bend it while it was in a vice. It was harder to bend then RB26. It wasn't exactly high boost.

154KW is pretty much 230HP...

Just go basics with it. If that doesn't work.... ask some one else.

mz20_drifter

wat about da toyota crown's the 1989 model not sure on da name

Killswitch

Yeah sorry, I meant all N/A 3S-GE engines.

NiSlo

Engine 3E-TE

Displacement: 1.5ltr
Aspiration: Intercooled Turbo
Cam: SOHC
Valves: 12
Fuel System: Multi-point EFI
Max Power: 110ps(80kw)/5600rpm 97ps/5600rpm (LOW mode)
Max Torque: 17.2kg m/3200rpm 15.2kg m/3200rpm (LOW mode)
Transmission Type: 5 speed
Drivetrain: Front engine / Front wheel drive

They come out of Corolla II/Corsa's. They only weigh 900kgs so put a T25 on it and it goes like a shower of shit, just like a little black and grey one gettign round the coast.

mz20_drifter

i love corsa's
my m8 has wid a 4efte

AmperSand

Negative.

So many people crap on about that, but in reality, the 2jz has bigger ports and valves.. so wonder which one flows better?

See many JZA80 supras, Aristos etc with 1jz heads on their factory 2jz's? I think not.. you ever wonder why?

Its such an old wives tale, with absolutely no corroborating evidence to support it.
Logically the 2jz having bigger ports/valves WILL flow more.

Sciclone

"About the 3S GE cracking under boost pressure.

First off, I was trying to bend it while it was in a vice. It was harder to bend then RB26. It wasn't exactly high boost.
"

All I know is thats what we see failing first on GT4 celica's...

also there is a daily driven MR2 in Japan running 700+RWHP, these engines can produce power but they need to be strengthened a bit to do so,

jposupra

3T-GTEU: 1.8L DOHC 160hp@6000 152nm@4800
compression ratio 7.8:1 (?) (7.3psi) stock(?)

as somebody said earlier the 1g-gte motors aren't all that in a supra, but put them in something lighter such as a TA or RA series celica and you can have a weapon.

eighty-eight

7Ms main problem is the actual head gasket.

when i first got my car i flogged another ma70 with 1g (i thnk anyway 6cyc turbo2.0l) and i had a dead stock 7M non turbo.

and a 7m gte would be a easy match for a stock 1jz with a few 'bolt on' mods

FHA57

yer but bolt mods onto the 1jz and see wat happens bet the 7m is nowhere in sight

The Pupat

I very much doubt it.

20% more capacity plus the same bolt on mods will give you more power throughout the entire rev range.

Mookie

it's strange how toyota went from 3 litre to 2.5 then back to 3 litre.
but there is a massive difference between the two so i am told

SkiDMaN

as krawler always says... fart into the intake of a jz and it will magically get another 50hp

the 1jz is a revvy motor.. and they sound horn.

HSV

UZS131 Is the Toyota Crown prefix for the 1989 model

*Looks at his*

Ok not much light has been shed on the 1uzfe, I will attempt to get some info out.....

Toyota/Lexus 1UZ-FE 4L (244 cubes) 4 valve quad-cam engine. It has a factory forged crank with chamfered oil holes and radiused journals, six bolt mains, reinforced lifter galley, and all aluminum construction. Pound for pound it was the most advanced V8 until it's successor--the 3UZ-FE--was introduced. Toyota spent an incredible amount of money developing the 1UZ which was their first DOHC production V8.They had so much confidence in their achievement that they used this engine exclusively in the new flagship Lexus LS400.

One of design achievements was the compact design of the engine. Consider the heads sharing a single cam drive. It would have been much easier to seperate the cams on individual gears, but this would have sacrificed space. The anti-backlash "scissors gear" mechanism makes the head narrower and the overall width of the engine less.

It might appear to be a low perf. set up: A single cam gear drives the intake cam, which in-turn drives the exhaust cam on an "anti backlash" gear. The only adjustment to make here is to check the lash and replace shims as necessary. The genius in this system is the simplicity. No rockers or followers. The cam rides directly on the shim that sits on a lightweight cup that presses down on the valve. It gets even better. The cup sits in a reinforced well; built to minimize movement. This technology is common in high revving race bike engines.

The narrow valve angle provides good mileage and smooth power delivery. It also allows the head to be made narrower. Incorperating aluminum lifters and short valve stems, Toyota made the reciprocating parts of the valvetrain few and extremely light. The only parts that need to be serviced are the iron valve shims. Further demonstrating their command over the engineering program, the shims can be checked and replaced without removing the cams.

The all aluminum construction makes the entire engine almost as light as a 2 liter iron mill. All of the accessories were mounted directly to the engine and the starter is in the middle of the V section to save space. The water cavity of the water pump system is integral to the block to allow a less protruding water pump.
The long intake runners are crossflowed for high inertia airflow, yet extremely compact.

The lightweight block has 2mm iron liners for good wear and heat transfer. Pistons are hypereutectic and have thermal expansion struts. Wrist pins are full floaters and the top rings are coated for long wear. Rods are factory forged units, as is the crank. All of the pieces were weight matched and balanced from the factory to reduce noise and vibration.

The oil pan is 2 piece and adds rigidity to the bottom end of the engine.
What would a discussion of the 1UZ-FE be without mentioning the 6-bolt main, steel cap, deep crank recess, bottom end. This contributes to a virtually indestructable assembly. The stock bottom end has been known to make almost 1000 bhp on mostly stock parts. With a completely stock assembly and compression ratio (10:1), the 1UZ has produced 600 bhp with 15 bs of boost.

Im sure Ive missed something somewhere here, im sure `nigno will have something to add that ive missed too. There are plenty of performance parts available for these engines, 8 throttle body manifolds, ram setups, twin blowers etc etc. Tough as nails engine they are, glad to have one in my Crown.

CSX 16

Not sure what car you've got that 1ggte in but obviously (as I'm sure you already know) if your car was as heavy as the car you were racing (that had a mildly modded 7mgte) you would lose by a lot.

If I had close to 200hp in my car it would be an absolute weapon because the car is so light. Doesn't prove anything about the engine



They slowly got more power over the revisions...... and got exponentially more expensive. They are a great engine, very strong and you can get good power without opening the engine. The worst thing about them is they never came in a RWD format



A lot of people have done it and made more power, I'm sure they wouldn't consider it to be an old wives tale.

Mookie

I left out my car has apod filter and a 3 inch exhaust but it's stock other than that.

MY car is a SA63 celica (Same as the RA65) made from 1983 to 1985 (as far as i know)
and the other car was an MA61. a 1984 model supra

CSX 16

So your car is about the same weight as a small roll of tissue paper .

Mookie

GET FUCKED !

I'd say a medium to large roll

Jezboosted

3ply ?

CSX 16

No the cheap sand papery kind.

eighty-eight

i heard that the 1.5J is the poor mans 2J.

so i thought that the 1.5J was ment to be more budget friendly than getting a whole 2J.


but thats only what i heard

HSV

ahhhh you mean the Clint Eastwood kind - Rough, Tough and doesnt take shit from anyone........................

SkiDMaN

hahahahahahaaa

trd_rolla

Toyota's best engine to date, the 6AFC - 1.4L twin cam single carburettor motor making a neck snapping 59kw!

But my favourite :

4AGE - 5 generations of motor. 8000 RPM redline :

Gen 1 - Silver cam covers with black and red/blue writing - Released in 1983 with a Yamaha engineered head with twin overhead cams, 16V and TVIS (Toyota Variable Intake System, basically the intake side of the head had 8 ports, 4 of which contained 'butterflies' which blocked the air flow below a certain revs to increase down low torque). Not the most powerful engine at 86/8kw, but it is still plenty quick being in a light shell like an AE82. Responds well to dropping back 2 gears Known commonly as a 4AGE Bigport, due to its rather large intake ports (hence TVIS...)

^^ My example

Gen 2 - Silver cam cover with black and red writing - Import motor. Same power and features as above, except was endowed with oil cooled pistons and a 7 rib block (compared to 3) for more efficient bottom end cooling.

Gen 3 - Silver cam covers with red writing - The newer Smallport version was introduced around '91, now featuring the same TwinCam/16V configuration, but now with the smaller intake ports, and the deletion of the need for TVIS. Still makes the same torque as the 88kw motor because of this, however power jumped to 100kw. Also contains the 7 rib block and oil cooled pistons, however it was also given a strengthened crank and rods.

Gen 4 - Silvertop The 20V! Introduced in the AE101 Levin Corolla's in Japan only in the mid 90s, this engine was very much ahead of its time in comparison to anything else on the market; notably for its 3 inlet valves and 2 exhaust valves per cylinder with Variable Valve Timing (VVT). The 20V 4AGE also had the tough bottom end as the 100kw motor (7rib block, and upgraded, oil cooled pistons), but amazingly was given quad throttle bodies, making engine response second to none. With all this, it made 120 kw, with useable torque from low revs thanks to its VVT system.

[Gen 5 - Blacktop] Almost identical to the 4th Gen motor, however came with larger throttle bodies and rubber (instead of plastic) intake trumpets. Still made 120kw...

*

4AGZE - SC12 supercharger equipped and almost identical to the 100kw 4AGE with 1.6L, TwinCam's, 16V, but also with forged crank, heavy duty rods and hypereutectic (sp?) pistons. Made 120kw, but with loads more torque than the 20V engine.

BOX33R

teh 7mgte can neva loose....

ej20t-vw

I disagree, the 2AC takes that trophy... 1.3L SOHC single carb, non-crossflow making a gut wrenching 49kw

AmperSand

By merely saying there are a lot of people out there that have done it that have made more power isnt really EVIDENCE.

Got any flow test results between 2 standard heads?

Do you know the reason people started to do this swap? Or do you just read random comments in forums hoping what people have said is correct?

Reason its generally done is when people would like to go for the 3 litre option of a 2jz, instead of taking the expensive route of sourcing a WHOLE 2jzgte and having to redo, wiring loom, ecu, manifolds etc. They merely swap the block in, retaining the latter.

I am yet to see anybody with a MKIV supra or anything with factory 2jz put a 1jz head on it.

Its not like im not a fan of 1JZ's, I've owned one before and just bought another one recently (instead of buying a 2jz, and it was around the same price).
So its not a biased comment, just seems your jumping in without much evidence.

I dont have much either, apart from the fact the valves and ports in a 2jz head are bigger. Which tends to lean me more to the 2jz's favour for having a higher flowrate.

drift_luva

whats in a toyota sera?

Matyi

4E-FE I think... Same as the locally delivered Starlet Life engine. These are a 1.3 litre twin cam 16 valve engine, but don't really make much power. It is fairly straightforward to swap in an import Starlet GT engine with 100kw (4E-FTE). See specs on the 4E-FTE engine above.

Mookie

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/997...ineEngines.html

i don't know if this has already been posted or not

chris davey

I agree with Ampersand. The 1.5JZ thing is bullshit. People do it when they blow the bottom end of their 1jz’s. And before anyone says “that can’t happen”. I have done it and did it with stock turbos so not every engine is going to handle 600-700hp as people would like to believe.

Remember with head flow it is about flow volume AND velocity. Having smaller ports increases velocity whereas having larger ones increases volume.

I am yet to hear of some one bolting on a 1jz head to a 2jz and gaining substantial power. In fact, I am yet to hear of anyone with a 2jz who has bolted a 1jz head to it. Why? Because money would be a lot better spent on working on the 2jz head to make it better rather than swapping a standard 1jz head on that some people on the internet think flows better.

CSX 16: why don’t you go and tell Ryan Woon from WOTM that he should fit a 1jz head to his 2j to make some more power. It is only making 1400rwhp without N2O. Imagine what it will make with a 1jz head.



On the topic of 7m’s.

That rigoli engine is tough. Taking that amount of boost with N20 is a tough ask.
Everyone knows the 1jz is better than a 7m in stock form because of the head gasket issue but who wants to talk about stock engines? Stock = shit IMO.