Hyundai Excel Racing Series - Track Attack - Evil things are about to happen to Hyundai Excels  

Beannie

i just had a read through some of the posts in the past few pages recently, and i really have to say something... (and i mean this with no dis-respect to anyone)

this is supposed to be a stock car class series. I understand basic mods are allowed, but seriously, you have to draw the line somewhere on this.
all this talk about sticky/soft/semi-slick tyres, larger swaybars, removing dashes (and possibly other 'stock-car' safety aspects) needs to be looked at.

i'm not out to write or re-write the rules, and i'm not the one enforcing them, but this is a stock car series is it not?? this should be a series to be competitive against another driver, not their car's ability

i firmly beleive the rules at the start of the series were quite adequate for a stock car series.

all of these cars running extra this and that, should be moved to a modified series and keep the rules of the stock series quite firm.
not everyone has the money to go out and spend on all these little extra bits n pieces because 1 person has them, so the rules are relaxed for the rest of the entrants. move them to modifed, or remove the mods and replace to stock!??

thoughts?

X3man

You could alaways have 2 sub classes in the series. Stock & Mod.

nodrog

I agree completely and would like to raise the suggestion of having the points include a system based on money spent..... ie the more you spend the less points you earn. After all it was this phrase that caught my eye Its going to be cheap and fun.
I for one am trying to do as mush as possible to keep my costs down, and am shitting myself when it comes to the big ticket items like suspension and tyres. The rest I can do myself to keep the costs down. I was given a damaged X2 and while probably not the best car to use it is what I have. I have already replaced the damaged headlights to keep the body stock, however I have tried to find a genuine dashboard, but no luck as they are all sun damaged etc seeing it is a 1993 model. If we dont allow some flexibility then there will be cars that will not be usable and need to be replaced = increased costs.

A further suggestion is to split the rules into performance and safety rules, with the safety rules being firmer and less open to change but still acknowledging that these are old cars and parts will become harder to find as time goes by.

If there are 2 classes how is it decided which class someone is in, stock by definition includes everything the car came out of the factory with, so change of tyre brand is a mod!!!!??? Install roll cage for safety = mod, install seat for safety = mod!!!!!! Where do we draw the line????

X3man

Performance mods.
This is only an example!!!
Stock: Strictly the rules you already run. road tyres 200 treadwear or over. Safety items are exempt.
Mod: open tyres, open mods under stock body work.
So the rules you already have plus a seperate class for people who can't help but spend.

PRO050

The talk about tyres is just that talk, Jeff said only if he could cut a cheap tyre deal and as yet he hasn't, so don't stress.
Just get out and turn some laps and work on your driving you'll pick up more time than any 1mm larger swaybar will give you.
Don't just go and throw a heap of money and parts at it, if your on a budget than drive it and get a feel for it so you know if the changes you do later make an improvement.
Jeff took a completly stock car out with standard old hard tyres, the car was partially stripped inside and ran 72's, if he went out with a wheel alingment and tyres next time he would be on the pace with no other changes. Jeff has done alot of laps around Lakeside and the best improvemets you can make is seat time.
Cheers Paul

slow bus

WOW alot of people blowing up about cost of tyres, the difference between running a KU36 or the like and a non name chinese brand is a round of drinks. and if you think you can get away with running on old tyres more power to you,

At the price for a half cage it should be manadtory, cut out the other mods and make safety first.

Sway bars should be kept stock, if you have a cage installed the benefit of rigidity of the car would give the same net gain as upgrading sway bars.

Really you should be able to setup a reasonable car for under 2.5K
$1000 car purchase
$500 ROPS
$500 springs and shocks
$500 tyres

Dismounts highhorse and gets himself a drink

neil_se

That never works, all of a sudden people start getting cars for nothing and mods for free, ie. never disclose the real costs to minimise penalty.

benno.h

Alright, for those of you whinging about tyres etc, have you actually driven your car on the track with the tyres it came with? They will flat out suck. Nor to mention are probably not speed rated for what we are doing with them and are fuggin dangerous. You WILL NEED NEW TYRES. You can get good ones for ~$100-150 a corner, or shit ones for less than $100 a corner. If you want to be competitive, get the good ones. If you can't afford it, suck it up princess.

Body stiffness (i.e cage) has absolutely *nothing* to do with roll stiffness (sway bars). Not even on the same planet. A decent rear sway bar, for the cost of a single race entry fee, will transform the excel into a rolly, understeering pig into a neutral, flat cornering, predictable handling car.

And if you can get springs and shocks for $500 you're doing pretty bloody well...

You forgot the race seat, harness, helmet, race suits, all those incidental $100 trips to supershit...

This is car racing guys. It's not cheap, and it never will be.

sv8nato

i totally agree this is why i wanted to run in this series cause i was running my v8 vy in the sprints and it was proving to be really expensive so when i seen a (cheap and fun series)i wanted in

trackattack

The only 2 changes to the original rules are wheel diameter size and swaybars.
ignoring the swaybars for the moment....

How many of you want to stick with the 13" wheels ?
have you looked at what tyres are available ?
I doubt you will get anything softer than +350 UTQG

trackattack

Also did I mention that the Stanthorpe Sprints are now only $60.00 from 12:00 to 5:00 - http://www.trackattack.com.au/carnell

nodrog

Maybe rules have not been changed but they have been added to signifficantly changing the original idea.

I have a set printed out on 4 March which did not mention anything about the dash and door cards (not that door cards are an issue!!). This is probably what caused a few to remove their dash, and in some cases probably discard it, but now the "change" requires them to refit. I think the compromise of having a safe alternative is a good one and I guess the ruling on what is safe or not will be up to the powers that be ie QR people.

It might be a good idea for the future to post that a rule change/amendment/clarification has been made on here when it gets changed on trackattack.

Please don't get me wrong I am not trying to break the rules but chasing a moving goal post can be hard. I still think that the driving force must always be safety, and that any mod must keep safety first and foremost, and this includes any performance mods.

I think the rules on tyres is good as it does allow for the safety of the cars to be addressed, yes they are going harder than they should and the only connection between the car and the road is the tyres so good ones are the best option. Maybe just specify road based tyres (already done), set a retail $$ figure (ie the $300 ceiling already set) and a treadware limit (ie 180 as in the KU36) and let the choice be up the the driver.

nodrog

On another note what is the best way to mount a battery in the car?? I need to move mine to make way for the pod and though of putting towards the rear of the cabin, but don't like the idea of having acid somewhere where it could spill on me in the event of an accident.

Would a battery box solve this issue??

NISMOgemini

let us know what you have and i might be interested in buying

trackattack

Clarifications have been made where the intention of the rule was perceived one way by someone with some previous competition experience and a different way by someone who was new to the sport. The intention of the rules hasn't changed.
If anybody isnt sure about anything then just ask, it will save time and money.

Re the Dashes and door cards, its not the dash itself thats important, its the safety aspect.
The rules have been clarified to include "a suitable safe alternative".
That should give some scope.

I have noticed one of the QR officials reading this forum,
so they are now aware of the issue and will no doubt take steps to make sure that they feel the cars are safe.

To fit your battery in the cabin I would use a sealed battery in a battery box.
Make sure that it is securely fixed to the floor.

NISMOgemini

Jebus.. whats with the whining about “rule changing”



As jeff said the only 2 that have changed are the rim size and swaybars..

Its not like any of you had bought 13’s or 13” tires yet.. so big deal. And the 15’s will make it a lot safer.



Sway bars are all of $200 each.. wow that’s hardly breaking the bank.. and if it is, just don’t get them now.. get them later.



You all don’t have to have EVERY mod aloud to get out there and drive.. its for fun, its not like theres a million dollar prize at the end of the year.



As for the dash and door card rule… that’s pretty bloody obvious(in every form or motor sport).. but if you have thrown it then suck it up.. you HAVE to have it simple.. id rater spend less then $100 to put another dash back in to prevent possible major injury.



Also, for anyone saying “this is suppose to be cheap racing” because its getting “too expensive” have obviously never looked into any other racing.. iv been looking for something cheap and fun for over 5 years and this is by fare HALF the cost of what the cheapest I previously found.. FYI, the Gemini series cars are spending on average $1000 EVERY meet.. the excels are spending what? $100 to $200 on entry, some fuel and tire wear

slow bus

Body stiffness (i.e cage) has absolutely *nothing* to do with roll stiffness (sway bars). Not even on the same planet. A decent rear sway bar, for the cost of a single race entry fee, will transform the excel into a rolly, understeering pig into a neutral, flat cornering, predictable handling car.

I never siad the two were related I said the benefit from either would be about the same lap time difference. The cheapest sway bar I have found is $220

And if you can get springs and shocks for $500 you're doing pretty bloody well... I will run the stock 13 year rear shock to start with new springs and front struts

Iam not a big fan of thick sway bars, if you get the spring and shock combo right the sway bar should be a major concern, It is not a magic wond and will not transform your excel into a super saloon. I most instantances a thicker front sway bar will add understeer to the car.

wasas

Far to much to quote, BUT Points I'll make are as follows:

SAFETY:
A cage is (for me) a given. if your running without one your just asking for trouble.
Better rubber is safer. Like the designer of the mini said, "The car is fine. Its your fault if you crash it." Grip is important but you need to balance the car yourself and know its own limits.
We are following CAMS and QLD's laws about the dash/car setup as we are keeping the car road legal. while its not padded I'd rather hit it than the metal underneath thats for sure. Following cams should allow us to run in other events, which we should be competitive in class for.


rules on sways and rubber are fine in my eyes.

@Slow bus
Would love to know where you can find a full set of shocks for for under $600... we are still running old POS ones that are blown as we dont have the money for a decent set yet. springs should be a better investment all round than shocks.
Front sways... well you summed it up. basically you want a soft front that grips and a tight back that slides. hvaing a stiff cage will help with body flex and a sway will help control body roll. they will go hand in hand on a sexcel and as ben says will make it somewhat predictable, even tho its still a bucket.


BACK ON TOPIC!
Whos running circuit this weekend? do we get the 50 points all to ourselfs???

slow bus

Just off the topic a little, what is the minium cage you need to run in the circuit racing. And does this cover Lakeside, QR and other misc venues

On the dash issue If I just sika a dash mat over the craked ad shitty dash will that be acceptable?

Beannie

well, wasn't trying to open a can of worms, but it's good to see some constructive talk about this (rather than typical boostcruising garbo).

I myself am happy with the rules as is, and the tyres and suspension rules that currently stand are quite adequate.
I'm not out there to re-invent the wheel, i'm looking for a fair and even playing field with safe options for all drivers.

i myself was first time out no experience at lakeside in stock road tyres and car (exception of rear seats out) and posted 72seconds in only 2 runs out there (shared entry with brother)
Naturally learning the lines better and car's ability should be up to pace with you guys with practice.

im summary, i dont wish to see rules relaxed for these stock series to much more for the entirety of the series, maybe next year?

trackattack

should be fine if the dash is still solid underneath.




To run AASA circuit racing minumum is 4 point cage - more details are here http://www.trackattack.com.au/forms/circui...and_apparel.pdf

to run with a roll cage at and cams events you need to comply with this http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen_re...dule_J_Q110.pdf

trackattack

I am working on a swaybar package, will let you know when I have pricing finalised.

RE Tyres - Shaun at Tyres and More behind Maccas at Albion will do Yokohama S Drive 195x50x15 for $150 each fitted ph: 3862 6200
he needs a days notice to get them in.

Cheers Jeff

nodrog

Hey Beannie I like your thinknig.

I think that there is still room to introduce an element of risk assessment and management in the class. I for 1 have decided that I will run a full 6 point cage as a minimum, and have gone about sourcing appropriate materils and building one. Based on this thinking, and the use of a full 5 point harness and race seat, the likelihood of hitting the dash has been significantly reduced, and in order to further manage the risk I am intending to construct something that would further reduce and sharp edges etc. My dilemma and I speak only for myself is that this approach is as safe as I can achieve beyond finding and replacing an original dash, which I have tried to find and in reality those available are likely to be "unsafe" due to significant sun damage and pure age as they are in wreckers with damaged or no windscreens.

All the other rules I agree with completely, but we also need to accomodate circumstances in which a safer option is proposed over the original where original equipment is scarce or not available. Maybe we should have a formalised process to seek the "approval" of the powers that be in certain circumstances.

benno.h

FWIW, the dash is going to do fuck all to reduce/prevent head injury for the passenger. It's a 2-3mm, hard, brittle plastic shell. Your head will go straight through it , shattering it into a pile of jagged shards, and continue on to what ever pointy structures are underneath.

I think it would be safer to remove the dash entirely, cut off sharp metal edges and construct a proper padded, shock absorbent structure.

All of this is pretty academic if there's only a driver in there however. Your head *might* hit the top of the steering wheel if there's enough stretch in your harness but I doubt it. I'd be more worried about the car completely deforming in a crash and shattering your knees on the dash or crushing your chest with the steering wheel.

NISMOgemini

id say its more you limbs flinging around hitting sharp bracketry.. not your head.. thats inside a full face helmet

nodrog

Ok but what is a flimsy piece of plastic going to do to stop that??? Not trying to be smart but the X2s probably predate any real crash testing and the plastice on them sucks. I have already removed all the sharp bits and put padding, the same as that used on roll bars, in place which I believe is better than flimsy plastic panels held on with clips.

Evaded Motorsport

Whiteline swaybars at full retail are $204 for the X3,

Gordon, I am still waiting to hear back regarding your suspension, hoping to give you a couple of options.

NISMOgemini

your not shooting your body at it from a cannon.. would you rather jump on a bed of nails with out without a layer of plastic, foam and trim over it??? its more then enough to protect you from whats under it

wasas

THey aren't made anymore
if you can get one I'll take one just a rear plox

Marlin

I think you got me wrong mate, I'm not a hater! lol

I posted the YouTube video only to highlight the safety aspect, I'm not doubting they're great fun (heck I took my old stock KE55 Corrolla around Lakeside in the 90's just to get out there!), my only concern is the safety aspect not wanting to see likeminded guys/gals gettin hurt.

As for the pace of the Excels, yeah they're doing great times around Lakeside because that track is all about keeping momentum and average speed up..... doubly as important in an Excel and the good drivers will be rewarded for it

I wanna have a crack in one! lol

Big_Red_

Haveing talked to the wreckers, 15" wheels are perhaps a fair bit harder to come across then initially anticipated. Thing is I need to replace the tyres on the stock 13's pretty damn soon. So unless some cheap 15's fall from the sky in the next few weeks it looks like I will be running 13's.
In a somewhat related point I will also be after a cage very soon, have we got a fixed price yet?
Lastly, my mates dad is ultra high up in Whiteline, will make a call and see what/if anything i can dig up.

nodrog

To answer you questionI would rather jump on a bed of nails that has all the sharp bit of the nails removed before being covered with padding.

Have you looked at an X2?? Hopefully the X3 has improved but the X2 has a very sharp edged steel plate supporting the relays abiut an inch or so away from where you loud pedal leg is!!!! and then they put this piece of plastice over is that is probably thinner than a condom!! This was not an acceptable option for me so ALL sharp edges were removed and /or relocated. I actually like the bits attached to my body and although they are a bit worn their condition is still accepatable to me and I hope to keep them that way. As it is now the only solid bit I have to worry about on the driver side or that is reachable by any of my extremities is the solid smooth bar, the pedals and the gear level, all of which are better than having sharp bits waiting to cut me to bits hidden benind a bit os dodgy plastic.

But this is all a pointless discussion as the rules allow a "safe suitable replacement" which is the route I am taking, and the deciding factor would be the QR people.

nodrog

Hey Big-red keep an eye on gumtree.com.au. I found mine there after a few weeks of looking, and find something for a Mitsi as well as the centre bore and stud pattern is correct, although the offset might be wrong. The offset can be fixed with spacers.

Marlin

I think in essence the original idea was to have the vehicles drivable to the track legally. Removing a dashboard simply isn't legal.

nodrog

Neither is adding a pod and stripping out the interiors anyway, and roll cages?????

Sounds to me like most of the current cars don't meet the essence of the original idea.

Without looking at the ARDs I can't comment on the removel of the dash but there are a few cars that just don't have a dash just an instrument cluster.